‘The place is Wendy Williams?’
Calvin Gayle/A&E Tv Networks
“At a sure level,” says The place is Wendy Williams? producer Mark Ford, “we have been extra apprehensive about what would occur if we stopped filming than if we continued.”
So, for the higher a part of a yr, his cameras stored rolling, documenting the more and more fragile state that the previous speak present host had discovered herself in, as she alternately craved household, her former TV platform and an extreme quantity of alcohol, all whereas struggling to stay coherent. What in the end got here of that footage is a uncooked, devastating, four-plus hour documentary, which aired on Lifetime over two nights this previous weekend. Williams, her son, Kevin Hunter Jr., and her jeweler-turned-manager, William Selby, are all credited as govt producers.
However, the eOne and Creature Movies mission asks extra questions than it solutions, together with what, precisely, was happening with Williams, and why a court-ordered guardian has largely lower her off from her household. Although the latter stays a thriller to the mission’s producers to today, a press launch on behalf of Williams and her present care workforce was despatched out simply forward of the documentary, revealing that the previous shock jock and TV host of 12 years had been recognized with major progressive aphasia and frontotemporal dementia, which impacts language, communication conduct and cognitive operate.
Then, two days earlier than The place is Wendy Williams? was set to debut, Williams’ guardian, whose identification is redacted all through the doc, filed a lawsuit towards Lifetime’s mum or dad firm attempting to dam the community from airing the two-night documentary occasion. A decide dismissed the request, nonetheless, citing the First Modification. So, it aired as deliberate, with Selby and key members of Williams’ household screening all 4 hours with producers beforehand. To their data, Williams, who’s stated to be in an undisclosed facility the place her cognitive points are allegedly being handled, has but to see it herself.
Now that the doc has aired in its entirety, Ford together with govt producer Erica Hanson and Lifetime’s Brie Miranda Bryant agreed to hop on a Zoom to debate its rocky highway to completion, together with the occasions they felt have been neither acceptable nor secure to maintain filming, and the bigger goal they hope that the movie serves, even when it wasn’t their intention stepping into.
Take me again to the start of how, precisely, this documentary got here to be.
MARK FORD It actually started as a dialog between Wendy’s supervisor, Will Selby, and our head of growth, Pat Lambert. I believe Pat reached out to Will about doing one other documentary with Wendy — as a result of we have been the producers of [Lifetime’s 2021 doc] Wendy Williams: What a Mess!, together with Brie and Lifetime. It was alleged to be a documentary that may comply with her journey again into her profession doing a podcast. We thought it was an ideal thought, and we have been hopeful that Wendy’s story can be redeeming and we’d be capable of doc this journey. However as we filmed, it grew to become evident that this wasn’t actually going to be a profession comeback story, that this was going to be a deeper story, and that there was one thing in the end disturbing happening in Wendy’s life.
Had been you questioning whether or not she was prepared for this?
FORD 100%. I imply, you’ll be able to hear my voice within the first 10 minutes of the movie asking each query that you’d ask about this example. The start of the movie was actually the event shoot, the place we went out and simply wished to take a seat with Wendy and see how she was doing. Principally the story that was given to us after that day is that it was a nasty day for Wendy and that alcohol had been concerned, and now she was going away [to a treatment facility] and he or she was going to get that below management. However this could under no circumstances inhibit us from transferring ahead. And after we did come again, she was higher. She was sober and on a greater trajectory. And there have been conversations and plans for the podcast, and there have been individuals being put in place to supply that podcast, and that was a storyline that we have been following. However it was derailed due to what we now know was the state of Wendy’s dementia.
Brie, at what level did Lifetime get entangled and what did these early conversations entail?
BRIE MIRANDA BRYANT At Lifetime, we’ve been concerned with Wendy for a very long time. I don’t wish to say that Wendy was a mentor to me, however I used to be certainly one of her largest followers rising up, listening to her on the radio as just a little lady. So, I’d reached out to her along with her first administration workforce, which was [her now ex-husband] Kevin [Hunter] Sr. on many events, to do issues for NBCUniversal, after I was there, after which at Lifetime. And I’d stated, “I wish to be the one to do your docu,” they usually laughed on the time. Then, when she was going via the divorce and it grew to become very public, I went and sat along with her and her supervisor on the time [Bernie Young], and I stated, “We wish to do your biopic. We wish to do your documentary. We wish to make it a giant Wendy Williams weekend.” So, we struck a deal and we reached out to Mark, and we began the journey with Wendy. And he or she’s the one who insisted on the title of that documentary being, What a Mess!, which is simply so her. So, for us, we’ve all the time wished to be in enterprise with Wendy. And so we have been speaking to Mark, like, “Do we expect we’ll ever do that once more?” And along with her administration workforce, too.
I maintain studying that this was the third and ultimate installment of a growth deal she had with Lifetime. Is that correct?
BRYANT This was not a part of that, no.
Your cameras started rolling in August, 2022. Earlier that spring, Wendy had given a collection of erratic interviews teasing her subsequent act — there was one with TMZ, and one other with Fats Joe on Instagram Dwell. Presumably you watched these? I suppose I’m simply attempting to find out the calculation you make that this lady may very well be prepared for a comeback.
FORD It was powerful each single day, and there have been conversations that we had, all of us, all through the documentary. And there was no assure we’d air this documentary if we weren’t pleased with the content material that we in the end bought and the editorial course that we landed upon, which was the household’s perspective and illustrating what can occur when certainly one of your loved ones members is put right into a guardianship exterior of your management. We simply occurred to be there on daily basis seeing the fact of this example, and we simply put the digicam on it and captured it. There was no intention. And Brie was very supportive all through, as a result of we would have liked to simply let this documentary unfold and see the place it went. And also you actually see that within the movie.
I believe we’re very clear about our producers’ confusion. We’re asking all of those questions that everybody has all through. We don’t know this supervisor. It’s a brand new supervisor. We don’t know this publicist. It’s a brand new publicist. The guardian gained’t communicate to us. And so we’re continuously simply attempting to push ahead and get the data as filmmakers. Like, what is definitely happening right here? And by the best way, Wendy cherished it when the cameras got here to the door, it gave her a purpose to stand up within the morning. I believe you see that.
You do see that.
FORD She loves the digicam, and he or she grew to become very shut with our producers. There was an actual emotional connection that the mission gave her, and truthfully, it bought to a degree the place we have been extra apprehensive about what would occur to Wendy if we stopped filming then if we continued. As a result of we in the end knew that we have now the management and we are able to simply not air this if it may possibly’t be moved right into a optimistic, redeeming course for her the place we can assist Wendy and hopefully different individuals. And that discovery got here a lot later within the course of, how common this story is and what number of hundreds of households in America are going via this very same factor, besides they’re not associated to Wendy Williams, who has this huge platform.
So, after all, we’re human beings. There have been extremely unhealthy days, and there’s loads of footage we shot that nobody will ever see. However we felt prefer it was essential as an instance the troublesome course of that Wendy and her household have been going via, and albeit what can occur to somebody in the event that they’re below the care of a guardian. I believe the household thought, and all of us thought, shouldn’t there be anyone right here extra typically? Shouldn’t there be anyone filling a fridge and checking in on her every day? None of these issues have been occurring.
Did you ever meet the court-appointed guardian?
ERICA HANSON No, no, no. She wouldn’t take my calls.
FORD Pat tried to name her many occasions, too. There have been many makes an attempt earlier than and through. Truthfully, we both bought a terse hangup or a really temporary, disagreeable trade. That’s what occurred.
Presumably, the guardian needed to give her permission for Wendy to spend time with you although, no?
FORD Sure. I imply, it was all signed off on. She [the guardian] was speaking with Will Selby, Wendy’s supervisor. Will was the purpose contact with the guardian all through the method and he must go to her to get paperwork signed, to get location agreements, to ebook her journey out of state. All of this stuff have been issues that needed to be signed off on by the guardian all through. So, it’s our understanding that she was very conscious of all the things all through the method.
Wendy is an govt producer on the mission…
FORD As a result of that was the precedent with all of her tasks at Lifetime.
BRYANT And it’s her story. It’s her title.
What did that entail, and did she see a completed product earlier than it aired?
FORD We merely have had no technique to get it to her to see it. No technique to display screen it along with her, as a result of she’s locked down in a facility and we haven’t been capable of communicate to her since we wrapped filming. The final day that you just see us filming along with her is the final time we spoke to Wendy. However we had many conversations behind the scenes with Wendy and Will about what they wished to movie, and what they wouldn’t wish to seize. As an example, Wendy wished to go to Miami to see her household. That wasn’t our thought. Otherwise you see the chapter the place she goes to L.A., we didn’t even know she was going to L.A.. However we bought a digicam crew collectively and, once more, simply pointed the digicam at what was really occurring in her life. So, the doc may be very observational in its nature and simply captured the reality of what was occurring to Wendy and what the individuals round her have been doing or not doing.
HANSON And a few days have been higher than others. However we all the time talked to Wendy about what we have been doing, and he or she positively had opinions and he or she weighed in.
There have been factors the place you’d get to her condo and also you wouldn’t be capable of movie that day, or there’s a scene within the automobile the place you determine to cease filming. How do you make that judgment name? Or, put one other means, the place is that line for you?
FORD We’ve by no means achieved one thing like this, so it’s a type of an unprecedented territory. And we additionally perceive that it’s a polarizing mission, and other people have wildly totally different opinions about it. We have been continuously having conversations about whether or not that is worthwhile, whether or not this serves Wendy’s story and helps her transfer ahead. However at a sure level, the story was additionally concerning the actuality of the state of affairs that this lady finds herself in. And it’s not a reasonably actuality. It’s not a pleasant factor to look at. And so we have been very cautious in how we depicted it and after we depicted it. And imagine me, as I stated, there have been many issues that we filmed that may by no means see the sunshine of day. However Erica, you need to reply on the way you made these judgement calls on the day by day.
HANSON You simply comply with your intuition, and it was a delicate, complicated state of affairs of what felt proper and what felt improper. After which there have been occasions the place Wendy made it clear when she was achieved for the day. For instance, this example within the automobile, we actually thought we have been simply going to go doc Wendy and [her publicist] Shawn [Zanotti] going to purchase vapes. That’s what we got down to do, after which as you noticed it fully spiraled and there grew to become a transparent level the place it was, okay, we have to cease and ensure that she’s okay and that she goes house, and it wasn’t acceptable to proceed filming. However we have been continuously scuffling with that, as a result of there have been moments that have been painful and really emotional. And I’d additionally level out that lots of people on our little workforce had been touched in their very own worlds by dementia and dependancy, so everybody from the sphere to submit had this deep sense of caring and an ideal sense of ethical accountability. And there have been occasions the place we actually felt like if we stopped, what would occur? Would she simply proceed? And would she fall down the steps?
The day earlier than the collection launched, Wendy’s guardian (who has now been recognized as Sabrina Morrissey) sued Lifetime’s mum or dad firm to attempt to cease this doc from airing. How involved you have been that she’d achieve success and that you wouldn’t be capable of air?
BRYANT It was loads of drama on the finish! All I can say is, it took us all abruptly. However we have been relieved that our authorized groups have been capable of come to phrases and simply grateful that we made it to air.
FORD In the end, it’s a First Modification situation. No one ought to have the ability to quash Wendy’s voice, and her household’s voice. And fortunately the courts understood that that was an important factor, and the free press gained out right here.
The household may be very vocal about their frustration with the guardianship. Do you will have a way for why the household hasn’t formally contested it?
FORD That’s an excellent query and we simply don’t know. We did ask it. What I do know is that it’s troublesome to contest a guardianship. The entire proceedings are masked, to allow them to’t even pull the paperwork to see why they have been excluded or not allowed to be the guardians to start with. So, due to the shadowy means by which the courts defend these guardianships, it’s very troublesome for them to assemble the data. Additionally, this isn’t a wealthy household that has a ton of sources. They’re like everybody else, attempting to get via the day, with individuals to maintain and issues that they’re coping with, and so it’s like, how can we even begin the method to know the way to do that? Truthfully, I believe the movie was their first step in telling this story, and getting it on the market. I hope the people who instituted this guardianship will watch the movie and see for themselves what Wendy’s state of affairs was and maybe it is a cautionary story transferring ahead about how one can forestall this from occurring to different individuals.
When it got here to interview topics, what was the method of getting individuals comfy with sitting down with you? I imagine her sister, Wanda, took a yr or so to be satisfied. Candidly, it took me some time, too. I used to be very nervous that it could be exploitative… [Editor’s note: Rose was a participant in the doc, having covered the final days inside the Wendy Williams Show.]
HANSON I believe we actually steadily constructed belief with the household. And it began with Alex [Finnie, Wendy’s niece] after which with Wendy’s son [Kevin Hunter Jr.]. With Wanda, it did take some time, however I believe she lastly felt that she did know data that was essential. And he or she felt that it was essential for her to fill in some blanks and for the household to be united. All of them acknowledged that they’re not the proper household, and that they’ve been fractured. However I really feel like they realized they wanted to come back collectively and to determine this out with Wendy. And pay attention, I knew little or no about guardianships however, how is it attainable {that a} youngster can’t name their mom? How is it attainable that she will be able to name him, however then what if the decision will get missed? I simply don’t perceive. And the way is it attainable that the household doesn’t know her healthcare state of affairs or the place she is?
Who did you not get however wished?
HANSON We did attain out to the [producers at the Wendy Williams] present. That’s one of many explanation why we talked to you, since you might inform that a part of the story as a result of the producers of the present didn’t wish to take part. And clearly, the guardian didn’t wish to do an interview. These have been the 2 predominant ones.
What about her ex-husband and former supervisor, Kevin Hunter Sr.?
FORD It was by no means a dialog to have her ex-husband be part of it, and that was on Wendy’s behalf. It wasn’t actually his story to inform.
Her niece, Alex, who performs a giant position within the doc, was alleged to be a part of at the moment’s interview. Are you aware why she isn’t right here?
FORD We don’t know, however you’ll be able to think about how overwhelmed this household is true now being on the heart of all of this. And Alex had been doing loads of press final week. So, I don’t know why she’s not right here at the moment, however I can perceive why as a result of it’s very overwhelming
HANSON I’d simply add that we watched the movie with the household, and in subsequent conversations after it’s aired, they’ve been very supportive. They actually had no notes in any respect. All of them are very supportive of it.
FORD I believe we are able to say that we additionally screened the movie for Wendy’s supervisor, Will, too.
Is Shawn Zanotti, the publicist, nonetheless a part of the workforce? It was exhausting to look at the doc and never ponder whether she had Wendy’s greatest pursuits in thoughts…
FORD No, it’s our understanding that she is now not a part of the workforce and hasn’t been for fairly a while. [THR has reached out to Zanotti for comment.]
The movie is titled, The place is Wendy Williams? At this level, do the three of the place she is?
FORD We don’t.
BRYANT I want I did.
HANSON So far as we all know, she’s in a facility being handled however no, we don’t know.
When’s the final you’ve spoken to her?
HANSON It might’ve been in April, after we completed filming.
FORD What you see within the documentary is the final time we ever spoke with Wendy. The workforce did return and examine on her a pair occasions after filming stopped, however we couldn’t get into the condo. After which we’ve been checking in along with her via her supervisor Will, who has spoken to her many occasions within the ensuing months. And he echoes what you see within the documentary that she is sounding and doing higher, and he or she is getting the proper care. In order that’s one factor that we’re very relieved about, that we left her in a greater place than we discovered her. And though we documented a really troublesome chapter in Wendy’s life, illustrating how troublesome that was in probably the most respectful means was essential to share along with her public. It additionally illustrates, truthfully, what the household’s predicament is right here. They’re in a position now to see what was happening with their mom/aunt/sister, and their suspicions about her care have been nicely based and the footage speaks its personal story. Would you need your member of the family who’s below the care of a guardian in this sort of a state of affairs?
Simply previous to air, a press launch revealed that Wendy had major progressive aphasia and frontotemporal dementia. Did the analysis come as a shock to you? I don’t know if that was a workforce of individuals you have been even in contact with or conversant in.
FORD We weren’t conversant in any of the individuals on these press releases apart from the guardian herself. Did it shock us? I don’t assume it stunned us. After all, we’re not medical professionals. However anybody watching the movie can see that there are indicators that have been there after which progressed quickly.
The household’s efforts and considerations over Wendy’s guardianship play a much bigger position in night time two. However if you happen to solely watch night time one, you may come away questioning if it’s too unsettling or exploitative. Had been these discussions or considerations for you stepping into?
FORD After all, we had many, many conversations about what to maintain within the movie, what to go away out, how one can inform the story, how one can flash again into the previous and reply questions, when to disclose sure data. However in the end, we caught to the reality of our journey as filmmakers. And whenever you watch the movie, it’s nearly such as you’re on the journey of discovery with us. And look, our accountability as filmmakers, one, is to ensure our topic is secure and leads to a secure place. However past that, it’s the reality. We now have to indicate the reality, even when that fact is painful to look at. As a result of, what if we didn’t present it? What if Wendy was nonetheless in that condo? What would’ve occurred if the movie didn’t come alongside when it did, to be just a little little bit of a spark plug and an engine to push these individuals round her to get her to important care?
And in addition, dementia is an insidious illness, proper? It’s tough. You’re probably not certain what’s happening. So, you’re capable of see this journey of discovery throughout these 4 hours and I do hope individuals keep it up to the tip, as a result of then you definately’ll see what the intention in the end grew to become, which was that Wendy’s struggling and the household’s struggling shouldn’t be in useless. That there’s a message right here that’s common, and it’s essential for individuals to listen to, and, once more, that echoes the expertise of hundreds of different households below this guardianship system. And documentary filmmaking is all the time a difficult factor. Like, if you happen to look again at Gray Gardens, was that exploitive? This mission by no means would’ve aired if we couldn’t steer it in the direction of the hopeful ending or the ending that we have now right here with the household participating and telling their story. I don’t wish to communicate for Brie, however we by no means would’ve aired one thing that didn’t have Wendy’s greatest pursuits and her household’s greatest pursuits at coronary heart.
BRYANT No, and simply to piggyback on what Mark simply stated, as soon as Wendy went away, we have been cameras down. There have been some check-ins to see how she was doing, but it surely was cameras down. And I believe the hope is that it could be an analogous state of affairs to what all of us skilled early on, which is she went to go get assist, she goes to get assist, she comes again and we are able to full the mission. However it was months that glided by, and my bosses have been very affected person with me as a result of we have been alleged to air this loads sooner than we did, however we have been within the enterprise of doing it proper. So we simply gave these guys [the producers] the area that they wanted to determine it out. And the analysis that was introduced was not the data that any of us had going into it. So, individuals have been watching the journey with data that we didn’t have in these first two hours, and I believe that’s a part of the confusion and the upset and outrage.
FORD We tried to be as clear as attainable, and the making of the movie is as a lot a narrative in some methods as Wendy’s story itself. And that’s why we deliberately left loads of the questions in — we wished individuals to know the journey of the filmmakers and the way upsetting it was for all of us in sure cases and likewise how outrageous in some methods the conditions have been. Like, Wendy can be left alone with out meals, fully on her personal in that condo with stairs that she might simply fall down. There was nobody there 24/7. So, these are simply all of the questions we had all through. However, after all, if we had recognized that Wendy had dementia going into it, nobody would’ve rolled a digicam.
