Margot Robbie and Cillian Murphy — she the star of “Barbie,” he of “Oppenheimer” — have shared an expertise, one distinctive in movie historical past. On July 21, 2023, their two motion pictures got here out, and as an alternative of cannibalizing each other throughout a time when field workplace receipts had been sluggish, they really boosted one another, creating the worldwide phenomenon often known as “Barbenheimer.”
On paper, the 2 motion pictures couldn’t be extra completely different. Greta Gerwig’s “Barbie,” produced by Robbie’s firm LuckyChap Leisure, is the story of the world’s hottest doll, who, after happening a journey to get better from an existential disaster, turns into a girl; Christopher Nolan’s “Oppenheimer” is a biopic about J. Robert Oppenheimer, the physicist who oversaw the invention of the atomic bomb. What they’ve in frequent, although, is that their administrators made wholly unique movies, ones guided by their inventiveness, and it was the revolutionary spirit of “Oppenheimer” and “Barbie” that in flip impressed audiences to be inventive and participatory of their fandom for each movies. The memes, the double-feature TikToks, the costumes folks wore to exit to theaters many times to expertise Barbenheimer — after COVID had almost destroyed in-person moviegoing — “Barbie” and “Oppenheimer” proved pleasure remains to be available (in addition to income, with the field workplace for “Barbie” at greater than $1.4 billion worldwide, and “Oppenheimer” not too long ago crossing $950 million).
In different phrases, Robbie, sporting a “Barbie”-inspired pink polka-dot shirt with matching heels, and a darkly clad Murphy have loads to debate once they meet for Actors on Actors — a rendezvous throughout which Murphy professes he now is aware of what a meme is, after famously claiming ignorance about them in a 2017 interview.
CILLIAN MURPHY: Congratulations in your moderately profitable movie. You’re a producer on the film as effectively. How do you know a “Barbie” film would join with audiences within the method that it did?
MARGOT ROBBIE: Yeah, 90% of me was sure that this may be a giant deal and a large hit, and 10% of me thought, “Oh, this might go so badly flawed.” It was all about Greta Gerwig. And it was like, “If it wasn’t going to be Greta, then, yeah, this might have been an absolute catastrophe.”
MURPHY: She was at all times your first alternative?
ROBBIE: I simply wasn’t going to let her say no. It was about six years in the past we obtained the property. We obtained it out of Sony, set it up at Warner Bros., obtained Mattel’s blessing to allow us to produce, then went after Greta. Clearly, I didn’t comprehend it was going to be the cultural phenomenon that it ended up being.
MURPHY: When did you notice that?
ROBBIE: It was all the best way alongside. The truth that it’s Greta Gerwig, persons are like, “Greta Gerwig and a ‘Barbie’ film, what?” After which the images of Ryan Gosling and me Rollerblading on Venice Seashore got here out and went even wider than I used to be anticipating. I’d been pondering huge for it, and it nonetheless turned out larger than I anticipated.
However what about you? Did you assume so many individuals had been going to observe a film concerning the making of the atomic bomb?
MURPHY: No. I don’t assume any of us did. Christopher Nolan was at all times decided that it will be launched in the summertime as a giant tentpole film. That was at all times his plan. And he has this superstition round that date, the twenty first.
ROBBIE: Do all his motion pictures come out on that date?
MURPHY: In and across the twenty first of July — they at all times come out then.
ROBBIE: It’s a great date. We picked that day too!
MURPHY: Yeah, I do know.
ROBBIE: One in all your producers, Chuck Roven, known as me, as a result of we labored collectively on another initiatives. And he was like, “I believe you guys ought to transfer your date.” And I used to be like, “We’re not shifting our date. Should you’re scared to be up towards us, you then transfer your date.” And he’s like, “We’re not shifting our date. I simply assume it’d be higher so that you can transfer.” And I used to be like, “We’re not shifting!” I believe this can be a actually nice pairing, truly. It’s an ideal double billing, “Oppenheimer” and “Barbie.”
MURPHY: That was a great intuition.
ROBBIE: Clearly the world agreed. Thank God. The truth that folks had been going and being like, “Oh, watch ‘Oppenheimer’ first, then ‘Barbie.’” I used to be like, “See? Individuals like every little thing.” Individuals are bizarre.
MURPHY: They usually don’t like being advised what to do. They may determine, and they’re going to generate the curiosity themselves.
ROBBIE: I believe they had been additionally actually excited by the filmmakers. Individuals had been itching for the subsequent Chris Nolan movie and itching for the subsequent Greta Gerwig movie. To get them on the similar time was thrilling. You’ve carried out 5 motion pictures with Christopher Nolan now, proper?
MURPHY: That is six, truly.
ROBBIE: So that you just like the man? An enormous fan.
MURPHY: It appears to work. That is the primary time taking part in a correct lead position for him. There’d at all times been supporting elements over time — it’s 20 years we’re working collectively. Emma Thomas, his spouse, the producer, she known as me as a result of Chris doesn’t have a cellphone. So she put me on to Chris, and he mentioned in his very understated British approach, “I’m making this film of Oppenheimer — I’d such as you to play the half.” I had simply completed one thing; I wasn’t doing something. I did notice then that it was completely different than the opposite jobs I’d carried out with him, as a result of it was the story of Oppenheimer’s life. After which when he finally gave me the script, it was written within the first particular person, which I’d by no means learn earlier than, and so I —
ROBBIE: The script was written within the first particular person? The large print can be like, “I’m going to place the cup down and stroll in the direction of the door”?
MURPHY: Precisely, precisely. Which I’d by no means learn earlier than. And so it was very clear that he needed it to be actually subjective storytelling. And that did add to the sensation of “Oh, fuck, this can be a biggie.”
ROBBIE: Why do you’re keen on working with him? And why do you assume he loves working with you? I do know you’re going to need to possibly be actually humble and be like, “I don’t know, why does he like me? I can’t perceive.” Take a guess.
MURPHY: With Chris, it’s simply the work. He’s not eager about the rest apart from the work and the filmmaking. And he’s extremely targeted, and it’s extremely rigorous.
ROBBIE: When he known as you and mentioned, “Film about Oppenheimer,” had been you want, “Gotcha”? Or had been you want, “Who’s that? I ought to go learn a e book.”
MURPHY: I knew the very fundamental Wikipedia stage. I knew concerning the Trinity exams, and I knew concerning the Manhattan Mission after which clearly what occurred in ’45. However I didn’t know what occurred afterwards or something like that.
ROBBIE: So that you learn loads to prep. What else did you do?
MURPHY: Stroll round my basement speaking to myself.
ROBBIE: Actually? I prep like a psychopath as effectively. Did you’ve gotten a factor that may get you into him?
MURPHY: Bodily, there was a great deal of footage of him, and he at all times stood together with his hand on his hip. He was such a slight man, however he at all times stood with this very form of jaunty angle. So I nicked that fairly early as a bodily factor. After which Chris Nolan saved sending me footage of David Bowie, like within the Skinny White Duke period, with the massive voluminous trousers.
And the way about you? Such a troublesome character. It’s this type of Twentieth-century icon, however not an actual particular person. How did you work it out?
ROBBIE: It was so bizarre prepping Barbie as a personality. All my common instruments didn’t apply for this character. I work with an appearing coach, and I work with a dialect coach, and I work with a motion coach, and I learn every little thing, and I watch all of the issues. I depend on animal work loads. I used to be possibly 45 minutes into pretending to be a flamingo or no matter, and I used to be all of a sudden like, “It’s not working.”
I went to Greta, like, “Assist me. I don’t know the place to start out with this character.” And he or she’s like, “OK, what are you fearful of?” And I used to be like, “I don’t need her to look dumb and ditzy, however she’s additionally not meant to know something. She’s meant to be utterly naive and ignorant.” And Greta discovered this episode on “This American Life,” the place it was a girl who can’t introspect, who doesn’t have the voice in her head that’s continually narrating life the best way all of us do. This lady’s obtained a Ph.D. and is extraordinarily good, however simply doesn’t have that inside monologue.
MURPHY: Is she completely happy?
ROBBIE: Yeah, completely.
MURPHY: Is she happier, do you assume?
ROBBIE: Oh God, I puzzled about that. She form of thinks about precisely what’s in entrance of her — a highlight to what precisely is in entrance of her on the time.
MURPHY: Nicely, that’s excellent, proper? We must always discuss concerning the costumes. So that you’re clearly nonetheless not sick of pink then?
ROBBIE: No, I’m not carried out with pink but. Yeah, the costumes had been unbelievable. I imply, you simply can’t have a “Barbie” film with out the colour pink. And everybody actually obtained on board with that. I’d make a “On Wednesdays, we put on pink” day. Are you aware that reference from “Imply Women”?
MURPHY: I had forgotten that reference.
ROBBIE: On Wednesdays, they put on pink. And so if you happen to didn’t put on pink on set, you bought a fantastic. After which I’d donate it to charity. It’s at all times the fellows, I really feel like, which might be like, “Oh, lastly I’ve permission to put on pink and dress up!” It could get crazier and crazier till Ryan can be like, “I believe I would like a mink.” It could simply get insane.
For my part, there are two sorts of individuals on this world. There are the people who find themselves obsessive about “Peaky Blinders,” after which there’s the individuals who haven’t seen “Peaky Blinders.” I clearly sit within the first class, so can we please discuss Tommy fucking Shelby for only one minute? I imply, that was years and years of your life.
MURPHY: Yeah, it’s like 10. That was additionally a 10-year journey. We began taking pictures on the finish of 2012.
ROBBIE: Is there going to be a by-product film?
MURPHY: I imply, I’m open to the thought. I’ve at all times thought that if there’s extra story to inform …
ROBBIE: Please do it. Please! Clearly, I’ve now revealed that I’m a giant fan of yours, not simply “Peaky Blinders.” I additionally love your sleep story on the Calm app. However as a result of I’m a fan of yours, I’ve watched a variety of your issues on YouTube, and it’s on the market on the web that you’re not that conscious of memes and issues like that. Initially, is that true? And second of all, if that’s true, had been you even conscious of the Barbenheimer phenomenon, or had been you simply blissfully unaware since you use a dial-up cellphone or one thing?
MURPHY: I’ve two teenage boys. I do know what a meme is. Now I do know that there are memes about me not figuring out what a meme is.
ROBBIE: It’s a fantastic meme. It’s just like the “Inception” of memes. A meme inside a meme.
MURPHY: Genuinely on the time I didn’t know. However folks overlook that was a very long time in the past.
ROBBIE: I won’t have identified again then what a meme is. I’m not that tech-savvy.
MURPHY: Precisely. And I believe kids began that stuff, proper? Now that it’s turn out to be this type of meme that’s consuming itself, I’m conscious. Nevertheless it’s principally due to folks both sending it to me or exhibiting me and saying, “Look, you gotta take a look at this.”
ROBBIE: You see any of the Barbenheimer fan artwork?
MURPHY: I imply, it was inconceivable to keep away from any of that stuff.
ROBBIE: Weren’t there some nice ones? Individuals are so intelligent. Individuals saved asking me, “So is every advertising and marketing division speaking to one another?” And I used to be like, “No, that is the world doing this! This isn’t part of the advertising and marketing marketing campaign.”
MURPHY: And I believe it occurred as a result of each motion pictures had been good. In reality, that summer season, there was an enormous range of stuff within the cinema, and I believe it simply related in a approach that you just or I or the studios or anyone might by no means have predicted.
ROBBIE: You may’t pressure that or orchestrate that.
MURPHY: No, and it could by no means occur once more.
This interview has been edited and condensed. Selection Actors on Actors is introduced by “American Fiction.”